ZIEGLER: Howdy, this is Tim Ziegler and Scott Swett on The Inquisition. Welcome to our chamber. This is a webcast radio show in which we're going to be very direct. We're discussing today with Mr. Carlton Sherwood the history of the film "Stolen Honor."

Scott, welcome to the show. Hope you're doing well today.

SWETT: I'm doing fine. It's a pleasure to have you here, Carlton. I think probably to start out, since you were the producer of certainly the most talked-about documentary of this election year, we'll give you a chance to answer some of the charges that were made against you and that film.

First of all, welcome to the show.

SHERWOOD: Well, thank you Scott for asking me on, and thank you Tim.

ZIEGLER: Not at all. We're looking forward to our discussion. I think it's a very important topic.

We've recently seen an Academy Award given to a movie documentary called "Bowling for Columbine." It couldn't have been further from an accurate documentary, and the allegations that should have been leveled against Mr. Moore for his film have been leveled against you in spades ever since the project started.

Can you give us some of the background on "Stolen Honor" and how the idea came to you and what the project was.

SHERWOOD: Yeah. In fact, it's a story I've told often, but I think during the heat of the campaign it certainly fell on deaf ears as far as the media is concerned because, to be honest with you, it's had more to do with the press's failure to do their job than actually John Kerry's treasonous activities in 1971. That was a given.

Every reporter over the age of 45, especially in Washington, who knew a Vietnam combat veteran knew the animus, the contempt, the incredible reservoir of anger we all had towards John Kerry because of what he did in 1971.

And for your audience, just to let them know, he treated with the enemy. He came back after he tried to - he tried to run for Congress as a war hero. That didn't work so he went to the other side, and he literally became a mouthpiece - he collaborated with the Vietnamese at a time when we were still at war - the North Vietnamese communists, that is.

He literally took their message, their peace plan, brought it back, lobbied for it with the U.S. Senate, and used their propaganda to label all of those who fought in Vietnam as war criminals.

And at the time we had several hundred POWs still being held, and they were pawns in the bargaining that went on over our withdrawal of troops from Vietnam.

So that was a given. We all knew that. That was a matter of history, even though John Kerry spent millions of dollars and decades trying to buy up every piece of document, or documentation, that he could to cover that up.

What gave me this idea - it was in March - was when John Kerry became the nominee apparent, you know, enough of this. I kept waiting for the media, my colleagues in the press, to finally call John Kerry to be accountable for what he did in '71 because for three decades no reporter, no reporter, had asked him in any depth or any detail what he had done during that period of time, and what -

And here's where "Stolen Honor" has separated itself from the rest of the pack. No one ever challenged or asked him what the consequences were of what he did. Never mind whether it was true or not, what were the direct consequences. For over 30 years he skated on a one-line response about having the courage to come home and stand up to a wrong war. Well, what about the wrong war? What were the consequences of him sitting before the Senate and doing that?

And I did that, and I did that because the press refused to do it. I waited until June. I waited for three or four months to see if any journalist, anyone at all, would step forward because the talking heads on the talking shows on Sundays, they all sat around and talked about, whoa, what's going to happen when that story comes in the door. Well, instead of doing it themselves -

SWETT: Carlton, at the core, I think, of the veterans' animus against John Kerry is the 1971 testimony that you mentioned before the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations at which John Kerry likened the United States military to the armies of Genghis [jen-jis] Kahn, in his pronunciation, and also claimed that Americans were committing war crimes that were, quote, "authorized at all levels of command."

Much of "Stolen Honor" focuses on prisoners of war explaining what that meant to them during their captivity. Could you elaborate on that a bit?

SHERWOOD: Well yes, and the reason I chose them as the vehicle, and I did - and by the way, I knew no POWs personally.

I put out, literally, cast a wide net to see if any would be interested in this, and over - my e-mail just blew circuits, because they were.

The reason I chose the POWs is because they suffered the direct consequences of what John Kerry did, because when he gave that testimony in '71, they were still being held in the Hanoi Hilton and elsewhere in North Vietnam. Many of them had already died in captivity.

They had been brutally treated, tortured and beaten and starved, and I felt that: one, they were the most credible people to talk about the direct consequences of what Kerry did - again, a story that's never been done - and number two, they were the only group of Vietnam veterans to come home with any sense of honor, with any respect or regard from the public, so I knew there was a reservoir - they were credible, whereas - no matter who I brought forward, I don't care if it was the most highly-decorated men in the Vietnam war, I knew we'd all be blown off by the media as a bunch of angry old men just trying to re-fight the war and we were just angry at Kerry.

So I chose to use the POWs in this sense to tell the story, and it's one they've been wanting to tell for over 30 years, but they, like the rest of us, have been virtually not only ignored by the press, but discredited or told to just sit down and shut up. You'll come out on Veterans' Day and then you'll go home. I mean, that's the attitude of most of the media towards Vietnam veterans in general.

ZIEGLER: Except when it serves their purposes and Dan Rather can go drag 12 guys out from Idaho, whether they were in Vietnam or not, and make the allegation that the Vietnam veteran is a drug-addled terrorist who is just waiting to explode and affect his fellow citizen.

SHERWOOD: Absolutely, and there it is. That's the legacy that John Kerry left us, because the program you're talking about is just one of literally hundreds of -


SHERWOOD: - of documentaries and newspaper articles that have been written since 1971. They all portray Vietnam veterans as drugged-out psychopaths who butchered, skinned alive people, murdered people, et cetera, and of course, the program you're talking about, once again, as always, it later turns out that they were all frauds. The men never went to Vietnam or were never in the outfits that they claimed to be in, and I mean, they probably had more problems from their treatment by their Sunday school teachers than they did in uniform.

SWETT: The reference there is to the CBS News documentary "The Wall Within," which Dan Rather put forward in the 1980s. It's been thoroughly discredited in that the witnesses he put forth, many of whom were not veterans, were not in Vietnam at all. Jug Burkett is one of the people that shot that down.

Carlton, many people, particularly supporters of Kerry, in and out of the media, have described the entire documentary as a smear tactic or smear job. How do you respond to that charge?

SHERWOOD: Well, even more specifically, they called it propaganda, and I remember on one program particularly I said, "Yes, it is. A big hunk of it's propaganda."

They said, "Aha! So you admit that."

I said, "No, I admit that the segments dealing with John Kerry's testimony, that's propaganda right out of the handbook of the North Vietnamese communists." He literally took complete passages in his slander of Vietnam veterans literally right out of their own propaganda, came back and put a Bostonian accent on it and had Bobby Kennedy's speech writer, you know, firm up a few phrases, but the same accusations, even the numbers. He claimed that we murdered - murdered - 200,000 Vietnamese a year while we were there. Do the math on that. How many people would you have to actually have out there killing people on an hourly basis to come up with that kind of horrible death count?

But no, let me just answer your question. It just - it angers me so much that they would write this off - it seems as though somebody declared this to be a political ad and therefore, it allowed the press not to do the things that they normally would do with a story of this kind, even to the point I was telling you off-air, that all the networks, and including C-Span, got together and agreed not to give us any footage at all to use at any price for the production of this documentary. We liter- - and that's the first time that's happened to me in 35 years, where you couldn't - of course, none of Hollywood - Hollywood wouldn't provide us with the clips that we asked for from the movies, again to demonstrate the legacy of John Kerry. You can actually match up entire scripts of movies to John Kerry's testimony -

ZIEGLER: Absolutely.

SHERWOOD: - if you wanted to take the time.

SWETT: You can match it up the other way too. You can match up Kerry's claims about his own activities in Cambodia with parts of Apocalypse Now, so the mythology seems to run in two directions.

ZIEGLER: The whole presence of the use of the boats - even though in the movie they used PBRs, in real life they were the swift boats. There is a legacy there. I think that's a direct connection.

SHERWOOD: Well, there's no question about it, but you can - and as I say in the documentary, but you could literally - even books that only have a Vietnam combat veteran as just an incidental character, nine times out of ten, anything written after 1971 will carry John Kerry's fingerprints in that an atrocity that he claimed that we committed or an act that he claimed that was typical of what we did on a daily basis is in those books or is in those movies. The impact that he had with the media, the mass media, was profound, and it's still with us today. I mean -

ZIEGLER: It is a ubiquitous part of the culture that Vietnam veterans are the homeless, sitting on the corner, begging for money, and the whole - I mean, it's a parody-proven truth because we have homeless now who say "disabled vet." The guy's never been closer to the military than the local movie theater, and yet he knows that by putting that on his sign, he'll get increased amount of donations.

SHERWOOD: And it's believable too. Everyone believes it. Well, I can tell you one story after another, and I know Scott could even top mine.

But I'm a good friend of the chairman of the House Veterans Affairs Committee. He came within two hours of naming - it's funny you should mention homeless - a homeless bill after a man in a wheelchair after he claimed he had to sell his Silver Star to get food, and it turns out the man was hurt in a car accident and he was never in the military, but they came within two hours of naming this bill after this guy.

SWETT: Carlton, one of the pioneers of the effort to really investigate the authenticity of people claiming to be Vietnam vets is Jug Burkett, author of the book "Stolen Valor." Presumably the title of your own documentary "Stolen Honor" plays to a certain extent off of that title. What was your relationship with Jug? Did he act as a consultant on the film? Did he help vet the vets, so to speak? How did that work?

SHERWOOD: Well, just so you know, it was not an accident that we named the documentary "Stolen Honor." It was in homage to "Stolen Valor." I carry a copy of "Stolen Valor" with me wherever I go. When I'm on the road, every - I have a copy right here right now. Wherever I-

Jug, I got to know him about two years ago on a totally unrelated matter. Actually, it had to do with the Veterans Administration and their inability to ride herd on - they themselves couldn't ride herd on legitimate veterans.

So I contacted Jug - it was more of a business thing than anything else - and got to know him. And of course, I knew about his book. I had read it repeatedly. But it is the bible for anyone - if you don't - if you haven't read "Stolen Valor," then you can't possibly understand the depths of the damage that John Kerry did to all of us because that's the consequences, the direct consequences, of that in many respects.

What a wonderful man, and as a career investigative reporter, I stand in awe of what Jug did and has done and continues to do on his own. He's still out there vetting these guys, turning up these frauds, and he does so in a meticulous and accurate way. He's very sensitive to jumping to conclusions. But he is without question the most thorough investigator, and he also protects our heritage and our history by doing this, because as you know, Scott, there are just literally thousands and thousands of frauds out there. You mentioned Dan Rather earlier. I mean, here Dan Rather's -

ZIEGLER: Marine veteran, right.

SHERWOOD: - walking around for years claiming to be a former Marine, when in fact he washed out in boot camp. Not exactly a badge of honor I'd be wearing if I were him.

SWETT: I think what you see in the culture is a syndrome where the journalists expect to see a certain type of person as a Vietnam veteran; therefore, they create a market for that sort of person, the homeless, psychologically damaged, unable to hold a job, you know, drug-abusing, flashbacks in the middle of the night.

I think one of the things that came out of this combined effort with the Swift Vets and the POWs and other groups is that American got to look at a different image of Vietnam vets. In the last combined ad of the Swift Vets and POWs, when that camera pans across 85 or 90 of these guys, you know, it's obvious that's not who they are.

SHERWOOD: No, and that's never who we - that's always who we have been. I cannot tell you, going back 30 years with friends of mine, I mean, friends who are really highly decorated men, a couple of Navy Cross recipients, and how we just couldn't believe how we were portrayed by the press as these scraggly bunch of homeless, drugged-out people. It's just amazing to us because everyone that we have known -

And by the way, if this sounds like some kind of class thing, forget it. I was an enlisted guy. I come from a Navy family, enlisted. The only officer we had in our ranks was a commissioned one. He was in a coma. So this is not a class thing.

But we just couldn't believe how - and how we continue to be portrayed, by the way. It hasn't stopped. The way John Kerry branded us, and that's the one that - that's the one that stuck, when he had that week of demonstrations in Washington that he put together with all of these scraggly-looking characters running around, running amok. The way he branded us has, without question, has stayed with us.

And frankly, I had hoped that "Stolen Honor" would at least be an effort to turn the corner.

I know that's one thing that Jug Burkett has tried to do with his writings, is to expose the frauds, that we are not what people think we are, hardly.

And if you have an uncle or a grandfather who is a Vietnam combat veteran, one of the reasons he may not talk about Vietnam is because he doesn't have any lurid tales to tell. It's really - a lot of guys who went to Vietnam are stoic. War is nasty stuff. A lot of times it's boring. Sometimes there just aren't any war stories to tell, or at least the kind of things that people want to hear.

SWETT: Well also -

ZIEGLER: And even when that's the case, Hollywood can make a movie about it, and I'm thinking about Robin Williams and "Good Morning Vietnam." I am sure that the real Adrian Cronauer - and from what I've read of his post-movie interviews, that his life was just to go to work and do the radio show and then live in Vietnam. It wasn't to collaborate with Viet Cong and to create the image that, you know, America was this atrocity-committing war machine.

SHERWOOD: Well absolutely. Actually, I know Adrian. I've met him a few times and I got to be friends with him, and even to this day he's amazed at how people still hold that notion that somehow he was that character in that movie, and nothing was further from the truth.

So I get a kick - every time the media uses the word "propaganda" to describe what I did, I mean, I'm just flabbergasted. This has been nothing more than three decades of propaganda perpetuated by the press. And I mean in the highest levels of the media too.

ZIEGLER: Carlton, we're coming into break. We're going to come back after this commercial, and we're going to pay some bills. Welcome to The Inquisition. We're interviewing Carlton Sherwood from the film "Stolen Honor" with Scott Swett and Tim Ziegler.

The web site is StolenHonor.com, www.stolenhonor.com. A lot of the research there was - we'll cover it when we get back.

Welcome to The Inquisition and we'll look forward to hearing you when we get back.

(Commercial break)

ZIEGLER: We're back. This is The Inquisition with Scott Swett and Tim Ziegler, and today we have the honor of having Carlton Sherwood, the producer of "Stolen Honor." We have a lot to talk about, and Scott and I are quickly going to grab the ad phrase "the fastest hour in radio" because this interview is flying through. There's a lot to discuss.

Carlton, in the movie, in the film that you made, "Stolen Honor," one of the things that I noted was you very effectively put the medals awarded to each of the people that you had in the film recounting their own personal history. You're looking at Medals of Honor, Silver Stars, Bronze Stars and Purple Hearts.

And then they go on and discuss multiple injuries, multiple beatings, multiple things, and I found that to be such an affront knowing that each of these men are sitting there with one single Purple Heart for the duration of their events, and Kerry's got three for Band-Aids. I just found that so incongruous and such an affront. Is that an effective representation of it or is that -

SHERWOOD: Well, one of the problems, Tim, one of the problems we had with that is in one case there is one gentleman has an Air Force Cross. Well, he actually has three.

ZIEGLER: Oh goodness.

SHERWOOD: And we had one gentleman - most of those men had multiple decorations. Several of them had three Silver Stars - three.


SHERWOOD: Rather than get the devices put on - and as you know, each branch of the service uses different - not each branch, but the Army, the Marine Corps, and the Air Force, use different devices, and rather than confuse that, I chose to simply put the single decorations up there just to give - and those certainly weren't their entire decorations by any stretch.

ZIEGLER: No, I understood that.

SHERWOOD: They were the top valorous decorations. But each - it's interesting you should bring up the Purple Hearts. Most of these men suffered broken backs -


SHERWOOD: - when they were shot down, right from the beginning because of the dangers of ejecting out of a *censored*pit.

In the case of Bud Day, Bud Day was actually shot down right over my head in 1967. I was on the DMZ. And Bud, right after he was shot down - this is the Medal of Honor recipient that we show at the end of the documentary. Bud got within 300 yards of our lines, the Second Battalion Fourth Marines, and he was shot again before he was captured. You talk about having a bad day, being shot down out of the air and then shot one more time just before you get back to friendly lines.

SWETT: If memory serves, Colonel Day also became the only prisoner of war to actually escape from one of the North Vietnamese camps and came within again a very short distance of getting away entirely.

SHERWOOD: What a remarkable character. And by the way, I'm very proud of the fact that he actually enlisted in the Marine Corps in World War II. He started out as a Marine private before he went over to the Air Force.

One of the gentlemen in the documentary, the three-time Air Force Cross winner, was a three-time ace, World War II, Korea, and Vietnam, and he was on the cover of Time Magazine two weeks before he was shot down. That's General Risner.

General Risner is widely regarded among the POWs as, without question, the most distinguished of the group simply because of his stature, his status. He took more torture and more beatings than just about anyone and managed to survive. They treated him - they tried to kill him several times over.

SWETT: It seems remarkable to have gone through a career such as that, to be so distinguished and held in such high esteem and then, you know, towards the end of one's life to be marginalized as a Republican shill.

So let me ask you, what Republicans, if any, were involved in this effort? I mean, was there any coordination between your group and the Bush campaign?

SHERWOOD: Absolutely none, and I think if anything, that angers me more. We took great care, great care, to keep any distance, keep distance from any campaign operations, and to be perfectly honest with you, they didn't want much to do with us, because anything you can't control - And we were what we appeared to be. Call it a grass-roots movement. Call it whatever you want, but the fact of the matter is that we and the Swift Boaters, these are all genuine men who are genuinely concerned about this country electing a traitor as Commander in Chief.

Think about the implications of that for a moment. And we all know it to be true. We knew - I mean, it's not guesswork on our part. We know it's so, and to have this man not only run for the highest office in the land, but to run as one of us? It was - what an incredible insult. What a slap in the face. And -

ZIEGLER: I have said several times that one of the most effective things about the Swift Boat Veteran controversy and the effectiveness of "Stolen Honor" came from the fact that it was based on the truth, and neither political operatives on either side knew how to deal with it because it was the truth. They just couldn't grasp that people would come forward and spend their own money and their own time and their own energy and access the 527 law on their own, and that's why the Democratic pundits couldn't figure it out and the Republican pundits couldn't figure it out.

SWETT: One thing I think worked in John Kerry's favor and the favor of his campaign was that the charges were so serious and so extreme that they were hard for people with no background understanding of the events to believe. And therefore, that made it easier for the opposition to marginalize the film.

I'd like, Carlton, if you would, could you talk a bit about some of the tactics that were used to suppress the film. I'm aware that the campaign, the Kerry campaign, went to various organizations such as Sinclair and instigated lawsuits, put enormous pressure on their stations. What sorts of other things did they do?

SHERWOOD: Well, they not only - they tried to ruin Sinclair. It cost them almost 200 million dollars through their chicanery in the stock market, on Wall Street, and ad boycotts. They went to individual television stations, threatened them. They put up these phony lawsuits, one of which - I mean, I haven't even gotten one. I had to go down and demand the other one. These were all designed to chill, to scare people into even showing this.

We had movie theaters that - in Pennsylvania here, for instance, movie theaters which at the last minute pulled the plug, decided not to show it, even though they had sold-out crowds because the Democratic National Committee coordinator here in Pennsylvania put out the word to call in with threats of violence, threaten, quote, unquote, civil disobedience.

So a lot of places wouldn't show this. At least three places in this area up here cancelled because of those phone calls because Kerry's campaign called and threatened massive demonstrations and violence. The thuggery was just incredible.

SWETT: There's a general consensus, at least on the Internet in conservative circles, that Sinclair did in fact buckle under that pressure. When they ran their final show, it only included a few minutes of footage from "Stolen Honor" and a considerably larger number of minutes of footage representing the Kerry campaign's point of view on these issues. Would you agree with that assessment?

SHERWOOD: Well, I was - look Scott, I was disappointed in what they did, and I felt - I could see it coming.

Once they asked John Kerry to come on and he said no, my feeling was they should have just run it right then, that hour, that day, and instead they allowed themselves to become engaged with the Kerry campaign, and from that point on it was downhill.

I owe them a great debt because if it wasn't for their incredible efforts, their desire to run this, we would have probably been backwatered. It was only because Sinclair had decided to announce they were going to do this that we were able to get out of the pack and come forward, and believe me, the most disgraceful case in this was the abject intentional suppression by the media to allow this story to come out.

And let me just add one more thing while we're talking about suppression. The networks, all four networks - put PBS in this - said when we tried to get the POWs and their wives on, all of them took the same tack. They said that the Kerry campaign had to send somebody before they would put them on the air, and since the Kerry campaign refused to put anybody there, therefore they were not going to put them on the air.

SWETT: So in effect -

SHERWOOD: That is not only unprofessional and unethical, if it's not illegal, a violation of the FCC, it ought to be.

SWETT: Well, in effect these networks -

SHERWOOD: I am outraged by that.

SWETT: In effect, these networks gave the Kerry campaign an effective veto over any appearances by POWs. All he had to do was not show up.

SHERWOOD: Precisely. That was the point of that whole thing, and you will never - and while they were doing - literally, the days that they were doing that, they had Kitty Kelley on there day after day after day.

SWETT: Right.

SHERWOOD: Nobody was on the opposite side of that one.

ZIEGLER: We saw Douglas Brinkley how many times?

SHERWOOD: Oh absolutely. That in my view is the most shameful episode in this. I mean, I've got to the point with some of these reporters on air and the New York Times and the LA Times, for instance, where I just said, okay look, I know you're a Kerry campaign operative disguised as a journalist because no journalist I know would embrace the notion of censorship, and that's exactly what they were doing. They were so in the tank, so in John Kerry's - I have never seen anything - I -

Look, every four years the media, especially the media in the big areas, you know, the urban areas, go for the democrat. That's a given. But I have never seen people working so hard on John Kerry's behalf as I have - the press - as I have this last year. There was no - no - sense of being news people at all. They were all campaign operatives.

The New York Times was a campaign commercial for the last year, and I think it's probably going to continue. Newsweek Magazine, same thing. These people all worked for the Democratic National Committee as far as I'm concerned.

And by the way, the other argument is, every time I appeared, they had to have somebody from the Kerry campaign on the other side. I got to the point where I said, well I don't work for the Bush campaign. Maybe you should put somebody else out here other than me because this isn't - I'm here independently. I'm here - I'm just one representative of these POWs, and we don't represent anyone's campaign. We're out here trying to tell everyone about things that you, Mr. Reporter or Mrs. Reporter, you're supposed to have been doing. The only reason I did this is because they wouldn't do their own jobs, and they still won't do it.

SWETT: Carlton, faced with pretty much monolithic opposition and suppression, and the fact that Sinclair put out what many people considered a disappointing subset of the "Stolen Honor" documentary - which let me mention is available for a free download at StolenHonor.com - you made the decision to put it online for free, and you also were able to get it out through some alternate chains. I think Newsmax was one of them and there was also a PAX Network. How did that work?

SHERWOOD: Well, what I did is after it became clear, the weekend it became clear that Sinclair - after they had run the program, I felt constrained. I wanted to see what they would do, and because no one knew what they were going to do. After they did what they did - the whole point of this, Scott, as you know, was to get this information out. It wasn't to make a profit. So I decided to license free to any broadcaster the documentary, and the same thing by putting it up on the web. Get it out there. And a lot of stations and cable networks took me up on it.

ZIEGLER: The fastest hour in radio continues. We're interviewing Carlton Sherwood on The Inquisition with Scott Swett and Tim Ziegler. You can get Mr. Sherwood's film at www.stolenhonor.com. Lots of research there was found at WinterSoldier.com. Please check those sites out.

We'll be back for our third and final segment in just a minute. Let us pay some bills. Here we are at The Inquisition.

(Commercial break)

ZIEGLER: We're back in the chamber of horrors at The Inquisition. We're interviewing Carlton Sherwood from "Stolen Honor" with Scott Swett and Tim Ziegler.

Mr. Sherwood, it's great to have you on board. It has been a fast, quick hour of radio.

There are a few more things we'd really like to go into, and one of them is, in the film you had Truman, Kennedy and Johnson, the Democratic presidents that embraced the initial conflict in Vietnam as a way to hold back communism. How did we go from there to John Kerry?

SHERWOOD: Well, that is a continuation of that whole theory of limited warfare, of no-win wars, where everything can be done diplomatically, and it began with post World War II Korea, all the way through where - I mean, Johnson - well, if you listen to these POW pilots, they had to endure the direct effects of the Johnson/McNamara policies and theories. Marines on the DMZ, we had the same thing. I mean, it's kind of hard for people to believe, but at one time we were up there defending a piece of real estate that McNamara wanted to put a fence across, as though that was going to keep the North Vietnamese army out of South Vietnam. I mean -

SWETT: Carlton, Kerry was not, at any point that I'm aware of, an advocate of the doctrine of containment. He was an advocate of complete unilateral withdrawal as a prerequisite to doing anything else. So I'm not sure about the connection between those two concepts.

SHERWOOD: Well, isn't that the first step to surrender? Containment? I mean look, it all ends in the same place, Scott. It's just one's a slow roll and the other one's more direct.

Again, I'll leave that for the Pentagon and State Department wonks to figure out. As I often say, look, I was just a mud Marine up on the DMZ, thinking this is just one more crappy Marine Corps assignment. I had no idea of the history that it would become when I was there.

SWETT: Who could? Let me take you back to an earlier point you made. You noted that your production company attempted to purchase footage of John Kerry from 1971 in the making of "Stolen Honor" and that all the networks that had that footage refused to sell it to you, that this is extremely unusual in the film-making business. What rationale, what excuses did they give you for taking this unusual action?

SHERWOOD: There was none. Actually, two producers called me from NBC to check out my bona fides to see if I was a legitimate journalist, and I said okay. We started out, they wanted to know what my background was, and I - your audience may or may not know this.

I was a three-time Pulitzer Prize nominee and finalist and I was a one-time winner in 1980, among other things, and I have literally a hundred national awards - over a hundred national awards for journalistic excellence and I had a 33-year career as a journalist - newspaper and network correspondent. So you would think with those credentials -

Let me add one other thing too. You just brought it up. I was there in 1971. I was a rookie reporter for a now defunct newspaper from Philadelphia covering that week of demonstrations in Washington. I was no more than 15, maybe 20 feet away from John Kerry when he cheerfully threw his medals, or someone else's medals, over the fence, as it turns out. I was there. I saw the television cameras. They were everywhere. John Kerry had his own entourage that followed him around with a camera crew. The film footage is there. There's no doubt. Still photographers, literally dozens of still photographers everywhere.

You try to find a photograph of John Kerry during those demonstrations -

SWETT: There are a few, but they're extremely rare and difficult to find. That's something we encountered during the research for WinterSoldier.com. The VVAW was very conscious of creating a film record of everything they did. When they had this three-day march - they called it the Rapid American Withdrawal March - through Pennsylvania the previous year, they documented it in painstaking detail and came up with a boring one-hour documentary.

The Dewey Canyon III week-long protest is the very height of the VVAW's achievement - it's the high-water mark - and there's just almost no footage at all.

So it seems clear enough that that has been made to disappear for political reasons.

SHERWOOD: Well, I'm of a - well, I know that NBC has footage because they used some of it in their own, what I say, propaganda-filled documentary full of factual errors. And CNN also has some - again, a total piece of propaganda. And PBS, being the worst of three, their documentary, again full of propaganda and factual errors.

SWETT: Carlton, let me throw a couple of quick questions at you.

You mentioned that you were the winner in 1980 of a Pulitzer award. That's not an individual award, though. That's as part of a news team. Is that correct?

SHERWOOD: It was myself and another reporter and an editor. I was the lead reporter on that story. The Gold Medal Pulitzer, which is the original Pulitzer, is awarded to a news organization. Usually it's a large group of people, like Three-Mile Island, for instance. I think 35 reporters were included in that. This was a two-man reporting team with one editor. I was the lead reporter and I have the medal hanging right here above me right now, so it's not fictional.

SWETT: Well, we'll turn our radio cameras toward it so our audience can appreciate that.

SHERWOOD: Along with my copy of "Stolen Valor."

SWETT: There you go. There are rumors floating around that some of the Swift Vet ads, combined POW / Swift Vet ads, made use of an actor to do voiceovers because the Kerry audio was not available. Did you use any voiceovers, or is that all Kerry?

SHERWOOD: No, that is all Kerry, and the only place that we could get that was from Pacifica Radio.

SWETT: That's where I got my copy.

SHERWOOD: And by the way, when this became a big story, Kerry's campaign people went to virtually everyone we had in our credits and tried to get them to shake us up, Pacifica Radio, to make sure that we had all the documentations and licensing and so on. That was the first thing that Kerry's campaign did, and literally harassed the people who were on the back end of the documentary.

And believe me, we struggled just to get the footage that we had there. It was very difficult to do without the historical footage that the networks have and are concealing.

Let me just say this: CBS, NBC, ABC and PBS have the footage of Kerry's activities in seventy - extensive footage, and they have sat on it, they have buried it, they have it locked up in a vault, and it was, and again, part of the press campaign to get John Kerry elected. So there's no doubt in my mind that they have it because they had to have it.

ZIEGLER: Do you think that -

SHERWOOD: I was there. I saw them shooting this stuff.

ZIEGLER: Do you think that -

SHERWOOD: And they don't throw it away.

ZIEGLER: With the conclusion of the campaign and Kerry's loss, do you think that access to these materials will become forthcoming?

SHERWOOD: well, if you're Stanley Karnow or you're - if you work for some communist dictatorship, I'm sure they're already in your hands.

Yeah, I suspect that there will be, quote unquote, right-thinking people who will be given access to it to try to twist it and turn it in any way they can. As I said, the networks did a nice job of propagandizing Kerry's activities themselves.

ZIEGLER: I want to have you back for like four hours. We want to talk.

This is the Inquisition with Scott Swett and Tim Ziegler. We're interviewing Carlton Sherwood of www.stolenhonor.com and the film "Stolen Honor." If you have a chance to see it, this movie is well worth your time. Please check it out. Also WinterSoldier.com.

When we come back we'll finish up with Mr. Sherwood and get on with the rest of the day.

(Commercial break)

ZIEGLER: A return to the chamber at The Inquisition. We're interviewing Carlton Sherwood of "Stolen Honor." You can get his movie at StolenHonor.com, Amazon.com, and even Newsmax has it. Newsmax has been very effectively promoting the movie, "Stolen Honor."

We have Scott Swett and Tim Ziegler. We're interviewing Carlton Sherwood. It has been a pleasure to have you here today, and from one Marine to another, I say Semper Fi and thank you for your service. Thank you for your film. Thank you for the work that you have done and how effective you've been at it. Obviously your career has helped bring this to fruition, and I couldn't think of a better use of your time.

SHERWOOD: Well, thank you so much, Tim, and I do appreciate that, and Semper Fi.

SWETT: Let me sneak in one question in the short time we do have left.

Clearly the two goals of the POWs and all the vets who opposed Kerry during the campaign were, one, to defeat Kerry, which they and others have accomplished, but second and equally importantly, to vindicate the honorable service of Vietnam vets. That mission continues. Can you talk about that a bit.

SHERWOOD: Yeah, and I'm glad you brought this up because I just got off of - I was just e-mailing - I just got an e-mail from Colonel Day, the Medal of Honor recipient, one of the two in the video.

We're going to pursue this. This man was not only not fit to be Commander in Chief, but he is unfit to serve in any elected office, certainly not the U.S. Senate, and right now we - and again, proving one more time we're not part of any political campaign. You know, we're going to pursue this all the way to the end. We're just trying to figure out how to go about it right now.

SWETT: The Swift Vets have said that they're essentially going to stand down. They say that if Kerry is not a threat to become Commander in Chief, that their interest in him ends at that point. You're saying that your group has a different idea.

SHERWOOD: Oh absolutely. We've had enough of this. We can't have him plaguing us for the rest of our lives. This - we just want him to go away, take the ketchup money, go windsurfing in Sweden or Stockholm, wherever he wants to go, but just get out of our lives. We don't want this man popping up again.

SWETT: Carlton, it's been a great pleasure to have you here. It's been a very enlightening conversation, and we look forward to talking to you again.

SHERWOOD: Well, thank you again, and hey, Semper Fi, Scott.

ZIEGLER: Carlton, thanks for your time. This is Tim Ziegler and Scott Swett on The Inquisition, having interviewed Carlton Sherwood. Thanks for your time today. Look forward to hearing you in the future at Rightalk radio on The Inquisition.

(End of transcript)

Last Updated Monday, November 05 2007 @ 08:01 AM MST|4,251 Hits